Royalty-Blue Blood Families

Comment

Comment by Thomas E. Abbott on December 3, 2009 at 2:46pm

Jim, I meant to comment more on your fascinating list of Charlemagne's parampurs -- legal and otherwise. It does point up how mores change over the centuries. Charlemagne was head of the new Holy Roman Empire, which had monogamy as one of its linchpins, yet look at the list! Apparently back then monogamy meant only one legal wife at a time (no official harems allowed) but linkups with others were apparently OK. Otherwise, how would this many names have survived to be known to history? Especially interesting in light of the current Tiger Woods brouhaha! This is another value of genealogy -- to explain societal mores in depth through the viewing of individuals' lives.
Alexandra: You can also be your "own cousin" too, if your parents were cousins.Often "Removed" too! By the way, are you related to anyone in the Salt Lake City area? (knew a Hooley who moved back there)

Comment by Alexandra Hooley on December 3, 2009 at 10:21am

Hello Cousins! I too am related to English royalty through John George Hacket born 1820 who is mentioned in the Tudor Roll of the Blood Royal. I have included bits and pieces of the royal family into my tree but as you all know, it is huge! Isn't it funny how our parents and children are also our cousins!

Comment by James P. LaLone on December 2, 2009 at 1:22pm

Thomas, you posted the message on the Discussion forum (under Charlemagne). Jim

Comment by Thomas E. Abbott on December 2, 2009 at 1:18pm

[This may be posting here a second time -- something seemed wrong when I first attempted it (but maybe not)] Thanks! On a related topic -- I have, off and on, over the years, been trying to complete a chart -- believe it or not -- of the ancestors of Edw I. To say this is a quite extensive project grossly understates its scale, but in the process it is a nice way to get to "know" the ancestors, if only in a very sketchy way. In the map-sized context they are displayed, their positioning in the centuries is thus more easily remembered, as well as who their contemporaries were. My question is: Do you know of anyone who has already done this? I would be interested only in the displayable data in a small font (say, size 4-6) and closely enough bunched together so that the chart would be only eight feet in height or so. This wouldn;t of course include siblings except in the more recent generations, but definitely would have pertinent b, m, & d dates and places and, where possible, very abreviated important life events and titles. Does this monster chart sound like anything you have ever read or heard of? Or maybe software that would limit the spacing that so often limits close bunching of data?

Comment by James P. LaLone on December 2, 2009 at 1:16pm

Forgot to mention I have also posted some stuff on the Medieval England forum of this website. Jim.

Comment by James P. LaLone on December 2, 2009 at 12:52pm

TYREL Ancestry
Again additions/corrections appreciated. I have not listed all the ancestry for all the line in the ahnentafel. Have to cut it off somewhere! Thanks, Jim.


1. Jean de TYREL-de-POIX, b. c. 1345, d. 1382.
He married Marguerite de CHÂTILLON-DAMPIERRE.

Parents

2. Jean de TYREL-de-POIX, b. c. 1315, d. 1361. He married Agnes de SECHELLES title: Dame de Cuvilly.
3. Agnes de SECHELLES title: Dame de Cuvilly, b. c. 1325.

Grand Parents

4. Jean de TYREL-de-POIX, b. c. 1290, d. aft. Aug 1346 in Crécy. (1) Married 1306, Jeanne de MOREUIL, b. c. 1295, d. bef. 1312. (2) Married 1312, Denise de LONGUEVAL.
5. Jeanne de MOREUIL, b. c. 1295, d. bef. 1312.

6. Mathieu de SECHELLES, b. c. 1324, d. 2 Apr 1413. He married unknown.
7. unknown.

Great Grand Parents

8. Guillaume de TYREL-de-POIX. He married Marguerite d'AZINCOURT.
9. Marguerite d'AZINCOURT.

10. Bernard V de MOREUIL title: Sgr. He married Yolande de SOISSONS title: Vcte., dame de Coeuvres.
11. Yolande de SOISSONS title: Vcte., dame de Coeuvres.

12. Gilles de SOYÉCOURT title: chevalier, sire de Sechelles, b. c. 1300, d. 3 Sep 1346 in Crecy. He married unknown.
13. unknown.

Great Great Grand Parents

16. Guillaume I de TYREL, b. c. 1230. He married Marguerite de RAMBURES.
17. Marguerite de RAMBURES.

20. Bernard IV de MOREUIL title: Sgr. He married Agnes _____.
21. Agnes _____.

22. Raoul de SOISSONS title: Sgr. of Coeuvres, b. c. 1210, d. aft. Sep 1272. (1) Married 1241, divorced 1243, Alix of CHAMPAGNE title: Cte. of Jaffa, also known as JERUSALEM, b. 1186/95/6, d. 1246/7. (2) Married c. 1255, Comtesse de HANGEST title: Cte.
23. Comtesse de HANGEST title: Cte.

24. Huet de SOYÉCOURT title: chevalier. He married unknown.
25. unknown.

3rd Great Grand Parents

32. Hugues III de TYREL title: chevalier sire et prince de Poix, b. c. 1200, d. Jun 1272 in Namps. (1) He married Beatrix de LANNOY, d. Oct 1233/7. (2) Married 1248, Guillemette de SARCUS. (3) Married 1255, Alix de HANGEST.
33. Beatrix de LANNOY, d. Oct 1233/7.

40. Bernard III de MOREUIL title: Sgr. He married Marie _____.
41. Marie _____.

44. Raoul I de NESLE title: Comte de Soissons, b. c. 1150, d. 4 Jan/Feb 1235/7. (1) He married Adele de DREUX, also known as Alice, b. c. 1145/6, d. c. 1205/10. (2) Married 1205, Yolande (de JOINVILLE?), d. 1144/1222. (3) Married 1224, Ade d' AVESNES title: dame de Hans, b. c. 1168, d. 4 Dec 1239.
45. Yolande (de JOINVILLE?), d. 1144/1222.

46. Jean de HANGEST, b. c. 1165. He married Gode des PRÉAUX title: Dame of Avenescourt.
47. Gode des PRÉAUX title: Dame of Avenescourt, b. c. 1180.

4th Great Grand Parents

64. Gauthier V de TYREL title: sire de Poix, b. c. 1172, d. c. 1227. Married c. 1194, Jacqueline de FOLLEVILLE, also known as Jeanne.
65. Jacqueline de FOLLEVILLE, also known as Jeanne, d. 1204.

80. Colin de MOREUIL title: Sgr. He married unknown.
81. unknown.

88. Raoul II de NESLE title: Chatelain de Bruges ( Burggraaf of Brugge), also known as Radulf III, b. 1095, d. aft. 1153/60. He married Gertrude de HAUTE-LORRAINE.
89. Gertrude de HAUTE-LORRAINE, b. c. 1118/25. (1) She married Raoul II de NESLE title: Chatelain de Bruges ( Burggraaf of Brugge), also known as Radulf III, b. 1095, d. aft. 1153/60. (2) She married Evrard III, Chatelain de TOURNAI.

92. Florent I de HANGEST title: Sgr., b. c. 1140, d. 1191 in Acre. He married unknown.
93. unknown.

5th Great Grand Parents

128. Hugues II de TYREL title: ecuyer, chevalier puis sire de Poix, b. 1140 in England, d. 1199 in England. Married c. 1161, Isabelle de WIGNACOURT.
129. Isabelle de WIGNACOURT, d. c. 1173.

160. Nicolas de MOREUIL title: Sgr. He married unknown.
161. unknown.

176. Raoul, Sgr. of NESLE title: Sgr. of Nesle, Falvy, also known as Radulf, d. aft. 1125. Married c. 1115, Rainurde _____, also known as SOISSONS / EU ?.
177. Rainurde _____, also known as SOISSONS / EU ?.

178. Simon I von LOTHRINGEN title: Hzg./Dk., also known as of LORRAINE, b. 1072/bef. 1088, d. 1138/9. (1) Married c. 1112, Adelheid von LÖWEN, b. c. 1090, d. 1158. (2) He married Adelaide of LORRAINE, b. c. 1084, d. c. 1158 in Tart.
179. Adelheid von LÖWEN, b. c. 1090, d. 1158.

6th Great Grand Parents

256. Hugues I de TYREL, b. c.1116/45, d. 1158. He married Ade d'AUMÂLE.
257. Ade d'AUMÂLE, b. c. 1118.

320. Bernard II de MOREUIL. He married unknown.
321. unknown.

352. Ives I de NESLE. He married Ramentrude d'EU, also known as de SOISSONS.
353. Ramentrude d'EU, also known as de SOISSONS, b. c. 1060.

356. Dietrich II of ALSACE title: Duke, also known as Thierry II von Ober-Lothringen/LORRAINE, b. 1044/55/60 in Lorraine, France, d. 23 Jan 1114/15, buried in Chetenois. (1) Married 1075, Hedwig von FORMBACH, also known as Edith, b. 1050/8, d. 1078/88/90/5 - 1100. (2) Married c. 1095/1100, Gertrude of FLANDERS title: heiress, also known as von Flandern, b. c. 1070, d. 1115/26.
357. Hedwig von FORMBACH, also known as Edith, b. 1050/8, d. 1078/88/90/5 - 1100. (1) She married Gebhard von SUPPLINBURG title: Count/Graf von Harzgau, b. c. 1058, d. 9 May 1075 in Slain. (2) Married 1075, Dietrich II of ALSACE title: Duke, also known as Thierry II von Ober-Lothringen/LORRAINE, b. 1044/55/60 in Lorraine, France, d. 23 Jan 1114/15, buried in Chetenois.

358. Henry III of LOUVAIN, b. c. 1050/65 in Louvain, Brabant, Lorraine, France, d. 5 Feb 1095. He married Gertrude of FLANDERS title: heiress, also known as von Flandern.
359. Gertrude of FLANDERS title: heiress, also known as von Flandern, b. c. 1070, d. 1115/26. (1) She married Henry III of LOUVAIN, b. c. 1050/65 in Louvain, Brabant, Lorraine, France, d. 5 Feb 1095. (2) Married c. 1095/1100, Dietrich II of ALSACE title: Duke, also known as Thierry II von Ober-Lothringen/LORRAINE, b. 1044/55/60 in Lorraine, France, d. 23 Jan 1114/15, buried in Chetenois.

7th Great Grand Parents

512. Gauthier III de TYREL title: sire de Poix, Namps au Mont, etc, b. c. 1095, d. 1145. Married c. 1115, Isabelle d'HEILLY.
513. Isabelle d'HEILLY, d. 1120.

514. Etienne II d'AUMÂLE title: Earl of Albermarle, d. 1127. He married Hawise de MORTIMER, also known as Hedwige.
515. Hawise de MORTIMER, also known as Hedwige, b. 1090.

640. Bernard I de MOREUIL. He married unknown.
641. unknown.

704. Robert I de PERONNE. He married Adelise _____.
705. Adelise _____.

706. Guillaume Busac d'EU title: Count, also known as Guillaume, b. c. 1000/23, d. 1064/aft. 1076. Married 1058, Aelis of SOISSONS title: Cte., also known as Adelaide/Adele.
707. Aelis of SOISSONS title: Cte., also known as Adelaide/Adele, b. c. 1020, d. 18 Sep 1066.

712. Gerhard I of UPPER-LORRAINE title: Count Vaudemont IV, Alsace, Metz, nickname le Grand, b. c. 1010/20/30/48, d. c. 14 Apr 1070 in Remiremont, Vosges, France. He married Hedwig de NAMUR.
713. Hedwig de NAMUR, b. c. 1010/30, d. 1074/5 - 1080.

714. Frederick von FORMBACH title: Count, b. c. 1020, d. 1059/60 in Slain, buried in Formbach. (1) He married Gertrude von HALDENSLEBEN title: heiress, b. c. 1020, d. 21 Feb 1115/6. (2) Married bef. Nov 1042, Ulfhild Olavsdottir of NORWAY, also known as Wulfhilde / Ulfhilde / Gisela / Ulvhild, also known as ? of DANEMARK, b. c. 1023, d. c. 24 May 1070/1.
715. Gertrude von HALDENSLEBEN title: heiress, b. c. 1020, d. 21 Feb 1115/6. (1) She married Frederick von FORMBACH title: Count, b. c. 1020, d. 1059/60 in Slain, buried in Formbach. (2) Married aft. Nov 1042, Ordulf von SAXONY title: Duke, also known as Otto, b. c. 1020, d. 28 Mar 1071/2.

716. Henry II de LOUVAIN title: Ct. of Louvian, Brussels, also known as Henri/Heinrich I, b. c. 1020/1/5 in Louvain, Brabant, Lorraine, France, d. 1029/38/77/9 in Beussels, Belgium, buried in Cloister of St. Gertrud, Nivelles, Nord-Pas-de-Calais, France. (1) He married Adelaide von BETUWE, also known as of BETHUNE, b. c. 1031 in Orlamünde, Thüringen, Germany, d. aft. 1086. (2) He married Maud of LORRAINE.
717. Adelaide von BETUWE, also known as of BETHUNE, b. c. 1031 in Orlamünde, Thüringen, Germany, d. aft. 1086.

718. Robert I of FRISIA title: Count of Flanders, Holland, also known as of FLANDERS, nickname "le Frison", b. c. 1032/3/5 in East Flanders, Belgium, d. 2/3/13 Oct 1093 in Kassel, Hessen, Germany. Married 1063, Gertrude von SAXONY.
719. Gertrude von SAXONY, b. c. 1030/5, d. 4 Aug 1113. (1) Married c. 1050, Florenz I of HOLLAND title: Count, also known as Florent I de GAND, b. c. 1017/30 in Vlaardingen, Zuid Holland, Netherlands, d. 28 Jun 1061 in Nederhemert, Gelderland, Netherlands. (2) Married 1063, Robert I of FRISIA title: Count of Flanders, Holland, also known as of FLANDERS, nickname "le Frison", b. c. 1032/3/5 in East Flanders, Belgium, d. 2/3/13 Oct 1093 in Kassel, Hessen, Germany.

Comment by James P. LaLone on December 2, 2009 at 12:38pm

Thomas, sorry, when I did the printout on the descent I failed to check the button which indicates which wife produced which child.

I have attached a rtf. file in the discussion forum under Charlemagne. It is what I have on the first three generations, which is by no means complete.

The MAINE family connections are controversial so that is one reason I posted that particular lineage. I have about 6 lines which go back to Charlemagne.

I basically used several gedcoms which I combined and copied from WorldConnect and am gradually going through it and making additions & corrections as well as adding notes (sorry for any which I failed to give the source).

It seems every time I get something entered "correct", someone else says it is not! This is needless to say very time consuming & why I hope people will work together getting the CORRECT info posted! Anyway, additions & corrections always appreciated (with sources & better yet documentation).
Jim

Comment by Thomas E. Abbott on December 2, 2009 at 11:21am

To James P. LaLone: (I really have very little idea of how to use this forum -- it was hard to even find it again once I signed in!) Your latest posting is very interesting. So, Rotrude is the dau of C and either Hildegarde or Sigrada? Is either one more of a possiblity than the other? Wherever did you find this incredible list of his official and unofficial paramours?

Comment by James P. LaLone on December 2, 2009 at 9:48am

WATRONVILLE Family -
Additions/corrections appreciated on following, thanks, Jim:

Generation One

1. Robert de WATRONVILLE, b. c. 1230.i

Married c. 1250,ii Halvix _____, d. 1290,2 buried in St-Paul's, Verdun.2

Children:
2. i. Jean.


Generation Two

2. Jean de WATRONVILLE, d. 31 Jul 1313,2 buried in Verdun.2

Married2 Jeanne du CHATELET title: Dame of Gondrecourt, (daughter of Liebault du CHATELET) d. 1315 in Verdun.2

Children:
3. i. Robert II de.


Generation Three

3. Robert II de WATRONVILLE.

Married c. 1330 in Verdun,iii Jeanne d'ARGIES, d. 1354.

Children:
4. i. Evrard I de.


Generation Four

4. Evrard I de WATRONVILLE, also known as Eyrard, d. aft. 1370.

Marriediv Jeanne de MAISER, also known as MAIZEY.

Children:
5. i. Robert de.


Generation Five

5. Robert de WATRONVILLE title: Ecuyer, Sgr. of Watronville.

Wife also listed as Marguerite de LaTOUR, and they had a dau. Jeanne who married Henri de HOUSSE.

Married 1417,v Blanche de GELLONNET.

Children:
i. Jeanne de WATRONVILLE, d. c. 1456.5

Unsure of mother.

Notes:
(1) Married5 Henri de HOUSSE.
(2) Married5 Jean de SAULX.
(3) Married5 Jean de BOULIGNY, also known as BOULGNY, (son of Thiébaut de BOULIGNY and Catherine de FAILLY).

Sources:
i de La Chenaye-Desbois et Badier, _____, Dictionnaire de la Noblesse (Kraus Reprint, 1969, 3rd edition), 19:993.
ii de La Chenaye-Desbois et Badier, _____, Dictionnaire de la Noblesse (Kraus Reprint, 1969, 3rd edition), 19:994.
iii de La Chenaye-Desbois et Badier, _____, Dictionnaire de la Noblesse (Kraus Reprint, 1969, 3rd edition), 19:995.
iv de La Chenaye-Desbois et Badier, _____, Dictionnaire de la Noblesse (Kraus Reprint, 1969, 3rd edition), 19:996.
v de La Chenaye-Desbois et Badier, _____, Dictionnaire de la Noblesse (Kraus Reprint, 1969, 3rd edition), 19:997.

Comment by Thomas E. Abbott on September 23, 2009 at 1:02pm

Oops, I miswrote there. Dermot was an ancestor of the Bohuns. Humphrey deBohun VIII married Edward's daughter Elizabeth (in 1302).
Many people with extensive New England (and Virginia too?) colonial ancestry -- if they can get it to be extensive enough -- will find "gateway" (usually Great Migration, 1600-1640) ancestors eventually linking in England to royal family lines. But it is easy to mix up way back there who belongs to whom as an ancestor!

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