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Stephanie, I think you have been very blessed to be given what your Mum gave you.

I have been asking my Mum for yrs. any anything she has, shes told me that she has boxes of info, she has no info and anything in between, One of our sons when to England to see my parents and my Mum says that she doesn't have anything. I have been looking for my Mum's Dad Charles Ralph for many many years, but I can't find him. She gave me his birth date but I can't find a record except on his Death record which doesnt give his parents.

 I wish you all the best


 Ps its been pretty easy finding my Mums Mum (my grandmother) and going back with her family and both my Dads parents, But my Granddad Ralph is being stubbone.

Hi Kathleen,

I am blessed with what my mom has given me. (Especially since I never had a chance to know her mother.)

Looking through the items she has given me has allowed me a greater understanding of history - even if it is just a limited history. Now I hear a date and think back to who in the family may have been around to experience an event.  It only recently occured to me that my grandparents were living in Chicago while Al Capone was making news. I wish I could go back and ask my grandfather what that was like - to live through that.

I wish you the best of luck with tracking your Granddad.  My mom's father is being rather evasive as well but that could also be a language barrier. I have to look into german records to research him.

Thanks for your comments - best of luck!


I have been researching my family tree since 1979. I haven't gotten as far as I would like but am still trying to get it together.

My lines are Barbre( sp var), Brown, Clay, Coad, Dosher, Ellard, Elliott Fox, Glover, Hays( sp var), Hedge, Jenkins, Kershaw, Kuykendall, Layne, McDonald, McKinnis, Sheraden( sp var), Simon, Smithwick, Spruell(sp var), Stancell(sp var). Von Urbach(sp var), Watkins, Watson, and Wenzel.

Most of these folks settled in eithe Edwards or White County, IL. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

Hello, my name is Barbara and I have just joined the site.

I have been reseaching my family tree on my mother's side and have found out that her grt, grt, grt grandfather was a Carl Ludwig Sprung (on her mother's side - Margaret Sprung) and he was born in Bautzen, Koblenz in 1811.  At some point he came to Liverpool and married in May 1833 a Margaret Looney who was from the Isle of Man.  Carl Ludwig died in Liverpool in December 1860.

I have tried to find out his full birth details and the names of his parents and siblings and of course when he came to England but am at a loss to know where to go to find this out.  I do not know any German language whatsoever!

Hope someone out there can help me.  Many thanks

Barbara try looking on Google I just saw a few Carl Ludwig Sprung on there.



Thank you for that, I will give it a go.




Hi Barbara - I too am searching for the origins of Carl Ludwig Sprung - he is my mum's great great grandfather - she is descended from Thomas Sprung, Carl Ludwig's youngest son, born in 1848. It is so frustrating to know all about his descendents in the UK - but not to know about the German family from whom we are all descended. There is a possibility that he changed the end of his name when he arrived int he UK - possibly from Sprunger.or Sprunck - but even searching for these surnames does not pinpoint Carl Ludwig who is it believed was born in 1811, My mum thinks he was actually born in 1805 or thereabouts - the problem is that researchers take previous researchers' information and so the fact that most seem to think he was born in 1811 may not be accurate. Also, I've come across researchers who think he was born in Koblenz - but which Koblenz (there is more than one in Germany) or why they think that is unknown. I'm tired of hitting a brick wall - but there must be a piece of the jigsaw out there somewhere that will fill in the gaps - it would be so brilliant to find out German family.

Hello Elizabeth - it is lovely to hear of another distant relative of Carl Ludwig Sprung.  I too join in your frustration to trying to find out the exact details of Carl's family in Germany and which part. I have been trying to find out more details on Ancestry Now and have communicated with the lastest - a Colin who though born in Liverpool is now living in Australia.  He has a friend who speaks and knows German and is going to ask if they can help him.  Lets hope so.

I will catch up with you soon but once again it is lovely to hear from you.  Barbara

Hi Barbara - thanks for getting back to me so quickly!  It's very comforting to know that we're not alone in trying to find Carl Ludwig! My mother has done her utmost to find out how he came to the UK. She has seen an immigration list at the records office which states that an L Sprung, nationality German, arrived in Hull on 12 June 1830 from Rotterdam. That is all the information on the immigration record. Further research showed that there were two ships from Rotterdam which docked at Hull on 12 June 1830 - we have both names and the captain's names but unfortunately have not been able to find the actual ship's manifests for those two ships. My mum even went to Hull to see if she could find them but to no avail. The fact that it was L Sprung on the immigration - rather than C L Sprung, was apparently common at the time - German people tended to use their middle name. Gossip that my mum remembers from childhood was that there were two brothers who came across at the same time and had a jewellery business in Liverpool - but we think that mistakenly refers to Georg Wartling who arrived the same time as Carl Ludwig and was the best man at his wedding in 1833. In any event Carl Ludwig was a cigar maker, not a jeweller. However, family rumour also suggested at one time that Carl Ludwig's family was Jewish. There was apparently quite a large Jewish immigrant population in Hull around that time and there were a number of riots  - maybe Carl Ludwig travelled to Liverpool to get away from the disturbances?  Another option for the Jewish connection is that there were a number of Sprungs in London - and indeed one of Carl Ludwig's descendents is named Moses. Maybe if a brother did come with him, he travelled to London, while Carl Ludwig went to Liverpool. Maybe then the two branches of the family fell out and lost touch with each other? Carl Ludwig got married in an Anglican Church in Liverpool  - but we gather from the Anglo-German Society that this was entirely possible in those days. Jewish people faced such dreadful persecution and it is possible that when he met Margaret Looney he wanted to become more anglicised.  The rumour is also that he 'dropped the end of his surname' when he came to the UK to become more anglicised. If so that would appear to rule out the Jewish Sprung connection in London as they are all recorded as Sprung. Unless the other brother also changed his name......So many possibilities! I've been looking at Sprunger and Sprunck on Ancestry - there are one or two possibilities but none of them fit in with him having been born in 1811. Anyway, I must now do some work, so will leave this for now and look forward to hearing from you again. I will however, take a look at the possible Jewish connection. I have a worldwide membership subscription to Ancestry - let me know if there's something in particular you want me to search for.  Also my email is if you would like to get in touch that way. Kind regards, Beth . 

Hello Beth - wow you have certainly been busy.  I find I will get quite involved with researching and then when I get to a dead end I leave it for a while.  I will try and put together what I have managed to find out about Carl Ludwig and send it to you via email.  My email address is to save going through this site.

I agree Carl Ludwig was a cigar maker as was his son, Carl Ludwig junior.  I too have wondered about the Jewish connection and it does indeed seem possible.  Unfortunately I have only one elderly relative left in Liverpool, my late Mum's sister who will be 90 this year.  I was born in Liverpool but my father was from Hertfordshire (just north of London) and therefore when Mum had me she brought me back to Welwyn Garden City where I was brought up.  My Dad is still going strong and he will be 91 in June! Well I will start trying to collect what information and from whom and send it to you.  Where in the country are you?  I still live in Hertfordshire.  Kind regards Barbara

Hi Barbara - I live quite close to you in fact - Oxfordshire. Mum and dad live next door - she's 86 and he is 89 this year. Mum and her three brothers were all born in Liverpool - she lost one during the war and the others all moved down to Coventry to find work, so that is where I and my sisters were born. Thanks for your email address - I'll contact you via that from now on so we don't clog up this site! Best wishes Beth

Hi, I have just joined this site.

I am an Englishwoman now living in the USA.  I have been doing family research for the past 14 years.  Initially my research was in England and Italy, My husband's family is all english, whereas mine is English, Irish and Italian.  Have helped many friends with their research in the USA.  Currently helping a friend with Swedish ancestors - very interesting and I am learning a lot!  I lived in Texas and Long Island and spent considerable time in the LDS Family History Centers.

This site and it's forums looks wonderful



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