LANCASTER descendants

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Permalink Reply by J Leaming on August 28, 2010 at 8:36pm

In your file you asked for additions and corrections. In the first four generations I have an addition of one earlier generation (Eldred) and some corrections:

1. Eldred, Lord of Workington, Cumberland [Sanders, p. 56][Weis, AR7, 34-24], wife unk., father of:

2. Ketel (Chetel), Lord of Kendal, [Sanders, p. 56][Weis, AR7, 34-24] , m. Christian Unk [Weis, AR8, 88-24]. parents of:

3. Gilbert, Lord of Kendal, d. 1170, m. Goditha [Weis, AR8, 88-24][Sanders, p. 56] (note, her connection to family of Kendal suggested in AR8 would be consanguineous, making it unlikely]. Parents of:

4. William I de Lancaster, Lord of Kendal. d. c.1170 [Weis, AR7, 38-25][Schwenicke, ES, III-4, 699]. Changed his name to de Lancaster by permission of the king [Dugdale, Mont. Anglicanum, v, p. 249]; m. Gundred de Warenne, Countess of Warwick, d. aft. 1166 [Schwenicke, ES III-4, 699][Cokayne, CP, iv, p. 671][Cokayne, CP, ix, p. 585].


In your Generation five (now six):
Elena de Morville who m. Roland, Lord of Galloway. He was son of Uhtred, Lord of Galloway and Gunnild de Allerdale (not Dunbar). Her father was Waltheof, Lord of Allerdale whose younger brother Gospatric was the first to hold the Earldom of Dunbar. [Douglas, SP, III, pp. 246-7]

In your Generation Six (seven):
#8. Alan, Lord of Galloway married (1) daughter de Lacy, dau. of Roger de Lacy, Lord of Pontefract and Constable of Chester. Part of her dowry was the manor of Kippax (see sources below). Their children were:

i daughter (given as hostage to king of England, died while a hostage [Douglas, SP, iv, pp. 141-2]
ii Helen of Galloway, m. Roger de Quincy, 2nd Earl of Winchester

The following tracks both the manor and advowson of Kippax, Yorkshire:

"Quitclaims to Roger de Lacy, Constable of Chester, the advowson of the Church of Kippax (Yorkshire, W.R.). (19 December 1299 x 1 October 1211).
Comment: The latest possible date is fixed by Roger de Lacy's death (Book of Fees, i, p. 64). One of his daughters, whose name is unknown, was evidentially Alan's first wife, and the manor of Kippax formed part of her dowry: TDGNHAS, 3rd ser., xlix (1972) pp. 50-3."

Medieval Scotland; Crown, Lordship and Community; Essays presented to G.W.S. Barrow, Edinburgh University Press, 1993, p. 104 n. , Appendix A; Alan of Galloway's Charters

Then, Kippax is subsequently held by Roger de Quincy, 2nd Earl of Winchester, who obtained it via his wife, Helen of Galloway, daughter of Alan and his first wife, a daughter of Roger de Lacy:

"6. While de Quency held Kippax [manor] he had a dispute with the Convent of St. John's, Pontefract, concerning the advowson of Kippax Church. John de Lascy, whose father, Roger had received it from Alan, son of Roland, Lord of Galloway and Constable of Scotland (D. of L. Coucher, i, 167)..."

F.S. Colman, A History of the Parish of Barwick-in-Elmet, In the County of York, Leeds, 1908, p. 222, footnote 6.



Also in Generation Six (seven) are a few more corrections:

#9. William III de LANCASTER title: Lord of Kendal. Died d.s.p. 1246. He had no children and his heirs were his sisters Hawise and Alice [Sanders, p. 57].

So #12. Alice de LANCASTER was the sister of William III, she married William de LINDSAY [Sanders, p. 57].

Her sister (not numbered), Hawise de LANCASTER., m. Piers (Peter) II de BRUS, Lord of Skelton & Danby. Their children were:
i Piers III, of Skellton & Danby
ii Alicia de Brus
iii Agnes de Brus
iv Lucia de Brus
v Margaret de Brus
vi Laderyne de Brus

Lastly, William III de LANCASTER also could not have married Agnes de BRUS since she was his niece (see child iii above). She married Sir Walter de FAUCOMBERG, 1st Lord Faucomberg. [Cokayne, CP, V, pp. 267-9].

I found some other minor dates and several omitted children in some families. But these are probably the most important changes. If you need any additional information or sources, I will see what I have.
JL

Permalink Reply by James P. LaLone on August 30, 2010 at 2:57pm

Thanks so much for your input on this. I have a question - the main sources I used for Alan GALLOWAY & daughter Helen was the Wikipedia, which of course gave a different mother for Helen. Do you know of any article that discusses the correct mother? Thanks, Jim.

Alan FitzROLAND
“Marriages:
He married three or four times: (1)?? an unnamed daughter of John [de LACY], Baron of Pontefract and Constable of Chester, who had died by 1209. They had one daughter:

Female, (d. 1213).
He married (2) Hilda (Helen) de L'Isle (b.abt1174 d.after 11/0/1245) m.1205 Carrick, Ayrshire, Scotland. She was the daughter of Rognvald Sumarlidasson, Lord of the Isles and Fonia of Moray. Sources-(Ancestral File. Family History Library, Salt Lake City, Utah 1994)

Child of Alan of Galloway and Helen de l'Isle:

Helen of Galloway (b.c1208) Carrick, Ayrshire, Scotland, who married Roger de Quincy, 2nd Earl of Winchester.
He remarried (3) Margaret of Huntingdon, daughter of David I of Scotland. By this marriage he had named daughters:

Dervorguilla of Galloway, who married John de Balliol, 5th feudal baron of Barnard Castle and founder of Balliol College, Oxford. Their son became King John of Scotland.
Christina of Galloway (d. 1246), who married William de Fortibus, Earl of Albemarle, but had no issue.
Alan married his last wife, (3) Rohese de Lacy, in 1229, the daughter of Hugh de Lacy, 1st Earl of Ulster.

By one of his marriages he had a son, Thomas, who predeceased his father”.
(Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan%2C_Lord_of_Galloway)


Helen of Galloway, (b.c. [1208], Wigtownshire, Scotland –1245), also known as Ela, was the daughter and co-heiress of Alan, Lord of Galloway and [[Hilda or Helen de L'Isle] daughter of Rognvald Sumarlidasson, Lord of the Isles and Fonia of Moray..

Helen had two half-sisters and co-heiresses, Devorguilla (or 'Derborgaill', mother of King John of Scotland), and Christina (or 'Cairistiona'). She was married to Roger de Quincy, 2nd Earl of Winchester, as his first wife. The three daughters of Roger and Helen of Galloway were:

Helen de Quincy (also known as Ela), who married Alan, Baron Zouche of Ashby;
Elizabeth de Quincy (also known as Isabella), who married Alexander Comyn, 2nd Earl of Buchan;
Margaret de Quincy, who married William de Ferrers, 5th Earl of Derby.
Helen of Galloway died in or after 1245, and was buried at Brackley, Leicestershire.

(Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_of_Galloway)

Permalink Reply by J Leaming on August 30, 2010 at 9:45pm

Yes, there is an article. Frederick Lewis Weis, Magna Charta Sureties 1215, Fifth Edition, Line 139-1:

"1. Alan of Galloway, Named in the Magna Charta, 1215, Constable of Scotland, 1215-1234, Lord of Galloway, d. 1234; m. (1) N.N., dau. or sis. of Roger de Lacy, of Pontefract, Constable of Chester (Tr. Dumfrieshire and Galloway Natural History Society 49: 49-5); m. (2) 1209, Margaret de Huntingdon, dau. of David of Huntingdon (son of Henry of Hundingdon and grandson of David I "the Saint," King of Scots) and Maud of Chester (SP IV, 138-43)."

In the Wikipedia article for Helen of Galloway is the notice: "This article does not cite any references or sources. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (December 2009)." This article has no source citations.

JL

Permalink Reply by J Leaming on September 3, 2010 at 4:56pm

Jim,


I have more information on other articles courtesy of my cousin’s files:

Roger de Quency succeeded to the Scottish estates. He married Helen, the daughter of Alan, the Lord of Galloway, Constable of Scotland. This was a daughter by his first wife. Alan married for his second wife, at Dundee, in 1209, Margaret, eldest daughter of David, Earl of Huntingdon, brother of William, King of Scots. By this lady he had two daughters—Dervorguil, who married John Baliol, Lord of Barnard Castle, the ancestor of John Baliol, afterwards King of Scotland. It was this lady who built Sweetheart Abbey. The other daughter, Christian, became the wife of William des Fores, son of the Earl of Albermarle.

Proceedings of the Society of Antiquaries of Scotland, Edinburgh, MDCCCXCVIII (1898), Vol. 32, p. 286


† The Chronicle of Melros, p. 201 and Fordun, L. ix, c. 48 expressly say, that Helen, Countess of Winchester, was the eldest sister. Accordingly, we find that her husband held the office of constable. It is certain that she had children 1. Elizabeth the wife of Alexander Comyn Earl of Buchan, constable between 1264 and 1270; 2. Margaret the wife of William de Ferreriis Earl of Derby; Ela the wife of Alan la Zouche. It is certain, that none of her descendants laid claim to the crown of Scotland after the death of the Maiden of Norway. Hence it may be concluded, that the Countess of Winchester was the daughter of Alan of Galloway by a former marriage, and had no connexion with the Royal Family. Alan of Galloway, after the death of Margaret of Scotland, married, in 1228, a daughter of Hugh de Lacy; Fordun, L. ix. C. 47.

Sir David Dalrymple, Annals of Scotland: From the Accession of Malcolm III in the Year MLVII to the Accession of the House of Stewart in the year MCCCLXXI, Third Edition, Vol. 1, p. 181 note †


LXXIII. The account here given by Fordun of the descendants of Malcolm Canmore and his wife, Saint Margaret, if correct so far as it goes, with the exception that the wife of Roger de Quinci was the daughter of Alan of Galloway by a former wife, and not by Margaret of Scotland. The table on p. 439 contains these genealogies.

John Fordun, John of Fordun’s Chronicle of the Scottish Nation, William F. Skene, Edinburgh Edmonstron and Douglas, 1872, p. 437

Ranald now sought his own ally and found Alan of Galloway ready to offer aid. Alan’s backing came at the price of a marriage between his son, Thomas, and Ranald’s daughter, which gave Thomas a claim on the kingship of the Isles.

Michael Brown, The Wars of Scotland, Edinburgh University Press, 2004, 1214-1371, p. 76

JL

Permalink Reply by James P. LaLone on September 7, 2010 at 7:28am

Thank you for the additional info/sources, Jim.