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Haplogroup R1a1a

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Welcome to Y-chromosomal Haplogroup R1a1a. This widespread haplogroup covers central/eastern Europe, central Asia and south Asia (India). Smaller populations can aslo be found in Scandanavia, the UK and southern Europe.

Members: 22
Latest Activity: Mar 31, 2023

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This haplogroup is quite controversial today with opposing views on it's origin(s). One side sees it as Central Asia and another sees it as India. There is quite the debate in the scientific community. There are also few subclades of this group, which is a stark contrast to many in R1b.

R1a1 (now R1a1a) is supposedly the haplogroup that domesticated the horse and spread the Indo-European languages. This may be contested as new subclades and ancient DNA information is being revealed.

I myself have ancestry from Poland (a stronghold of R1a's) but my closest match on Ysearch.org at 67 markers is from India with a Genetic Distance (GD) of 14. Despite the distant timeframe for Most Recent Common Ancestor (MRCA), I contacted this person and found out that he was confused about having his closest match from Poland. Since then and we have become great friends - very very distant cousins - that both live in the US.

I originally didn't think too much about a distant connection to India, until I was in a Polish deli and as I started speaking Polish to the clerk, when a lady nearby looked at me and told the clerk that I didn't LOOK Polish. I told her that I was indeed Polish. Or was I? My genealogical research has only gotten me back to my great grand father in Poland, but I don't know much about him but his name.

My lower resolution 12 marker matches are all over Europe -England, Germany, Poland, Greece, Italy, Denmark, Norway and France and there may be what could be a remnant migration route. But what about India? The highest percentages of matches or near matches at low resolution are from Pakistan, Tajikistan and India. But low resolution may be well outside of a genealogical timeframe and maybe just hints at the past (See map image above).

I invite anyone to provide comments and especially wish to hear from other R1a1's. My journey so far into genetic genealogy takes up a good portion of my spare time as a biologist, but has made me feel more confident, outgoing and outreaching than ever before. I've enjoyed the GG presentations I've given at conferences and hope that more people will test to discover their ancient past and potential lost relatives.

Robert Sliwinski

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Comment by Jacqueline Ryerson on July 16, 2011 at 6:42pm: My brother's dna is also YCA11b-23, DYS 459a -9 & DYS 458-15 so my ancestry is Russian? Is these markers indicate thru the Walk thru the Y indicate? With an 82 disabled husband I can't afford the Walk thru the Y tests.

Comment by Mark Even Jensen on July 16, 2011 at 5:23pm: This might be of general interest. From it, however, I look Russian!

From: aklyosov@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [DNA] Walk Through the Y - Looking
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 19:36:05 +0000 (UTC)
In-Reply-To: <mailman.39176.1237316601.2246.genealogy-dna@rootsweb.com>
From: Doug McDonald YCAIIb = 23, 459a = 9 458 = 15 Russian YCAIIb = 21, 459a = 9 458 = 15 downstream Norse YCAIIb = 21, 459a = 8 458 = 15 "Somerled" Scots Alexander or MacAllister YCAIIb = 21, 459a = 8 458 = 16 "MacDonald"

Comment by Mark Even Jensen on July 16, 2011 at 4:37pm: The "Walk through the Y" you did, did it cost you $750 like what I have seen discussed? FWIW I was a 'Viking" control for Doug McD attempt at a Sommerled SNP, have you heard anything about it? I sort of asked him a year or so ago, but don't recall the response. My impressions is that Scandi R1a1a's came form enslaving Slav groups, and wife abduction might be the source of my H4a1a mtDNA who I thought might be Irish, though I have a FGS in Iran.

Comment by Jacqueline Ryerson on July 16, 2011 at 4:25pm: I had a match at 25 markers with a surname Johns org. Schantz (Switzerland & a Mennonite) & now the 37 match (4 genetic distance) is with the surname Tschanz. It looks like my Francis family is related to the Schantz/Tschanz/etc. group. I upgraded my brothers dna to 111 markers thinking more the better. Would having only up to the 67 marker test have been better? So far subclade test has been neg, alone with the SNP L342, M458 etc. So what further tests do I need to try to pinpoint ancestry?

Comment by Robert Sliwinski on July 16, 2011 at 4:00pm: Jacquelyn, looks like on your paternal side we potentially have a common ancestor around 1500-1700BC about the time R1a was in central asia. In your Ysearch which is now based on 95 markers, I see the closest matches from Eastern Europe and Norway and the UK. But they are distant. I have the same problems of no close matches. The closest match of 4 at 67 martkers is marginally close enough, but I would at least contact them to find out more about their ancestry. I'm working on how to force ysearch to do only 67 markers. I can check some other sources to see what else I can find. Robert

Comment by Robert Sliwinski on July 16, 2011 at 3:14pm: Mark,

I "Walk through the Y" tested and L450 is the only unique mutation they found looking at 180,000 bases on the Y chromosome.

Comment by Mark Even Jensen on July 16, 2011 at 1:56pm: Dear Rob,

You being L450 means you "walked the Y" or else somehow got ti from FTDNA?

Comment by Robert Sliwinski on July 16, 2011 at 1:53pm: @Mark, this page is separate from the FB page. Thanks for signing up!

M458 is a subset of M417 and being positive for M458 provides with a general geographic origination area of Eastern Europe. I am also M458- as many non Eastern European R1a1 (even though I have Polish ancestry). And yes most R1a men are now classified as R1a1a1 if they are at least M417+. L342 is the new buzz now, but I think there are some more results that are pending - I am L342-. I have my own marker L450 (which is way cool) which no one tested yet has come up positive.

@Jaqueline, thanks and that's great that you have upgraded to 111 markers which will allow you to now look at other databases (that might not be apparent) and check for matches as well. FTDNA is including markers that other companies have tested but FTDNA does not , until now. I'll look up your brother's ID and see what's there and get back to you.

@Laurie, if you can provide the Ysearch ID number then I can take look and can take a look. Thanks!

Comment by Mark Even Jensen on July 16, 2011 at 12:36pm: I was sort of connected to this group already via FB, but I just became aware of it as a stand-a-lone destination. I am M458 negative, but just discovered this is a subset of M417 or R1a1a1, I think.

The big buzz recently is of L342.2 which I first saw as an Indian subcontinent clade but seems also AJ Levite.

Comment by Jacqueline Ryerson on July 16, 2011 at 11:51am: My brother's dna is also neg for M458 along with neg for L342, 176.1, 157.1, M434,

Haplogroup R1a1a

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dombek, scythes, courgan

R1a1a1h* Z93+ Z94- L342-

Sliwinski Project Page at FTDNA

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