Please refrain from a Coat of Arms or Family Crest - Genealogy Wise2024-03-29T14:47:41Zhttp://www.genealogywise.com/forum/topics/please-refrain-from-a-coat-of?commentId=3463583%3AComment%3A81670&feed=yes&xn_auth=noAn excellent site that I had…tag:www.genealogywise.com,2009-07-21:3463583:Comment:851112009-07-21T23:50:46.258ZJames Allan Waitehttp://www.genealogywise.com/profile/JamesAllanWaite
An excellent site that I had missed somehow. Thank you.
An excellent site that I had missed somehow. Thank you. Truly, I'm not trying to be d…tag:www.genealogywise.com,2009-07-21:3463583:Comment:850382009-07-21T23:40:23.188ZJames Allan Waitehttp://www.genealogywise.com/profile/JamesAllanWaite
Truly, I'm not trying to be difficult. I think we agree in most regards. I don't think there needs to be another website hawking generic family crests or coats of arms, in that regard I would support you in this thread. I also disapprove of people claiming the rights to use a coat of arms that is not clearly granted them by a heraldic authority, and would actively oppose any site that encouraged such use. If that is the point of this thread, what else can I do to help.<br />
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I don't have the rights…
Truly, I'm not trying to be difficult. I think we agree in most regards. I don't think there needs to be another website hawking generic family crests or coats of arms, in that regard I would support you in this thread. I also disapprove of people claiming the rights to use a coat of arms that is not clearly granted them by a heraldic authority, and would actively oppose any site that encouraged such use. If that is the point of this thread, what else can I do to help.<br />
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I don't have the rights to use any particular coat of arms, like most Americans, and I don't use them in any of my American ancestors profiles. However, if someone can 'jump the pond' with their history, or if a rightful descendant immigrated himself, I have no problem with someone using an accurate coat of arms, credited to the proper family or individual, to tag a particular branch of a family that was entitled to use the arms. I think this use is only to illustrate relationship of the line, and isn't an attempt to claim rights to use the blazon improperly. As time goes on many of the line will have developed arms of their own that will differ from the original, but until those are discovered and credited to the proper person, I think its an acceptable use, in a personal genealogy, indicating a line of descent, not the rights to the use of the arms themselves.<br />
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I'm sorry if I've seemed aggressive in this thread, but I read it as an attack on people who have used coats of arms in the profiles as well as the wholesale distribution provided by the family crest companies. I must agree with you. Howeve…tag:www.genealogywise.com,2009-07-21:3463583:Comment:835682009-07-21T16:47:57.996ZEugene Ralph Kipphttp://www.genealogywise.com/profile/EugeneRalphKipp
I must agree with you. However, there is a site that promotes Heraldry here in the USA. It's located at <a href="http://www.AmericanHeraldry.org">www.AmericanHeraldry.org</a>.<br />
To quote from their hompage: "The American Heraldry Society was founded to study and promote the proper use of heraldry in America. The Society seeks to educate the American public about the art and practices related to personal and organizational heraldry and to promote legal protections against usurpation of coats of…
I must agree with you. However, there is a site that promotes Heraldry here in the USA. It's located at <a href="http://www.AmericanHeraldry.org">www.AmericanHeraldry.org</a>.<br />
To quote from their hompage: "The American Heraldry Society was founded to study and promote the proper use of heraldry in America. The Society seeks to educate the American public about the art and practices related to personal and organizational heraldry and to promote legal protections against usurpation of coats of arms in this country. "<br />
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Enjoy I am in total agreement, howe…tag:www.genealogywise.com,2009-07-21:3463583:Comment:825382009-07-21T06:37:51.525ZGeorgie Trammellhttp://www.genealogywise.com/profile/GeorgieTrammell
I am in total agreement, however, I have embrased the Coats of Arms that have been presented to individuals. As part of my research I have included them and a narrative of the events that lead to the presentation. I have also in an introduction to this section explained that there is no such things as "Family Crests". I will say that is was great fun collecting the Crests and the stories that go with them and being able to indicate how the person who was honered by his monarcy connects to my…
I am in total agreement, however, I have embrased the Coats of Arms that have been presented to individuals. As part of my research I have included them and a narrative of the events that lead to the presentation. I have also in an introduction to this section explained that there is no such things as "Family Crests". I will say that is was great fun collecting the Crests and the stories that go with them and being able to indicate how the person who was honered by his monarcy connects to my bloodline. I have also made a quilt of many of them, it is a sorta joke within the family, we refer to it as the blanket of what could have been and we don't take the concept of Crests serious as we are Americans and could never "win" one anyway. I also have an old western colt that is suppose to have been used by one of the numerous lawmen in the family and a Bible that has a nick, that is suppose to have been what stopped a bullet from killing a GG Grandfather. I know two things about the men of my family, they were ministers and lawmen-sometimes both at the same time. I also have a couple marshal badges that represents the terrirories they were in, but they are not the orginal ones. Am I foolish, no I know the truth, and present these items as examples of that was and how people lived so that my Grandchildren understand what life was really like. I am personally proud that there were men in my family that were rewarded for the service the gave their monarch. Correct - it is European. If…tag:www.genealogywise.com,2009-07-21:3463583:Comment:821642009-07-21T02:49:29.241ZUnknown Ancestorhttp://www.genealogywise.com/profile/UnknownAncestor
Correct - it is European. If you are one of the rare few who are entitled to heraldic titles, then you and your posterity can be proud.<br />
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The intent of the clearly damaged illustration is to persuade GenyWise to stop calling for a commercial site of Coats and Crests so they won't encourage their false use for surname sites here.
Correct - it is European. If you are one of the rare few who are entitled to heraldic titles, then you and your posterity can be proud.<br />
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The intent of the clearly damaged illustration is to persuade GenyWise to stop calling for a commercial site of Coats and Crests so they won't encourage their false use for surname sites here. I'm not sure what your intent…tag:www.genealogywise.com,2009-07-20:3463583:Comment:816702009-07-20T23:12:03.735ZJames Allan Waitehttp://www.genealogywise.com/profile/JamesAllanWaite
I'm not sure what your intent is in this graphic, this is one form of shield that was used, in some renderings mostly on the continent. The illustrations use different lines to denote colors, when painting or other application of color wasn't possible. The text is virtually illegible, and unintelligible. How could this possibly be a preferred representation. As long as the blazoning (description of the markings) is accurate, its up to the heraldic artist how that shields image is portrayed, no…
I'm not sure what your intent is in this graphic, this is one form of shield that was used, in some renderings mostly on the continent. The illustrations use different lines to denote colors, when painting or other application of color wasn't possible. The text is virtually illegible, and unintelligible. How could this possibly be a preferred representation. As long as the blazoning (description of the markings) is accurate, its up to the heraldic artist how that shields image is portrayed, no two artists renderings are alike, even when illustrating the same arms. This is a fact accepted throughout the world of heraldry. Of course the primary features and tinctures have some general rules that must be adhered too, but there is great latitude in the illustration itself. And there are a multitude of books published from the rolls of battles and other sources that enumerate the blazoning of a given individuals arms. I don't see anything special about this illustration that would make it prefered over many many more attractive methods that are just as accurate. Yes, to be sure, as James Wa…tag:www.genealogywise.com,2009-07-20:3463583:Comment:787472009-07-20T02:35:57.578ZUnknown Ancestorhttp://www.genealogywise.com/profile/UnknownAncestor
<p style="text-align: left;"><img alt="" height="1519" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2173397445?profile=original" width="1000"></img></p>
Yes, to be sure, as James Waite has correctly stated, heraldry has always been a part of genealogy.<br />
It also still remains a black eye because the large majority of those claiming a Coat of Arms are simply mistaken.<br />
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If, however, you have employed <b>original historical sources</b> (such as civil registrations and church documents) and traced your line directly to a valid crest -such as the old stone in this photo, saved by a church- then it can be a…
<p style="text-align: left;"><img src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2173397445?profile=original" alt="" width="1000" height="1519"/></p>
Yes, to be sure, as James Waite has correctly stated, heraldry has always been a part of genealogy.<br />
It also still remains a black eye because the large majority of those claiming a Coat of Arms are simply mistaken.<br />
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If, however, you have employed <b>original historical sources</b> (such as civil registrations and church documents) and traced your line directly to a valid crest -such as the old stone in this photo, saved by a church- then it can be a source of heritage you may proudly share with your posterity. You still realize that the influence of an ancient ancestor is minimal, when compared to a grandparent, in physical, genetic, social, emotional, and other terms.<br />
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My original plea was to the <i>GenyWise</i> administrators because they were calling for a massive commercial source of Coats... I agree with you James. You s…tag:www.genealogywise.com,2009-07-19:3463583:Comment:772162009-07-19T20:32:41.754ZTammy Evanshttp://www.genealogywise.com/profile/TammyEvans
I agree with you James. You stated everything right. I can't stand it when companies on and off TV, Internet and so forth try to sell you something that is not really there's. I have passed stands in the mall trying to sell coat of arms. I want to go right up to the people standing there listening to the sales pitch and stop them from buying but I don't have a right to do that. Anyway, If you do have a surname that was nobility and did receive coat of arms that was granted to the individual us…
I agree with you James. You stated everything right. I can't stand it when companies on and off TV, Internet and so forth try to sell you something that is not really there's. I have passed stands in the mall trying to sell coat of arms. I want to go right up to the people standing there listening to the sales pitch and stop them from buying but I don't have a right to do that. Anyway, If you do have a surname that was nobility and did receive coat of arms that was granted to the individual us American's can't claim it but just be proud of it as in my surname 'Warren" but with that said, If you have all the documentation you can contact the Heraldry in England to have your line claimed, which does cost a lot and has to be a direct male line and depending if anyone else has claimed your surname you can possibly have a coat of arms awarded to you. I guess I need to chime in. I…tag:www.genealogywise.com,2009-07-19:3463583:Comment:764592009-07-19T18:00:27.007ZJames Allan Waitehttp://www.genealogywise.com/profile/JamesAllanWaite
I guess I need to chime in. I must agree that the uncontrolled / uneducated use of Coats of Arms, and particularly 'Family' Crests is a problem. Generally for the reasons discussed in the posts so far. Most Coats of Arms are registered for an individual, most Americans have no right to claim a Coat of Arms, we are generally descended from a class of individuals in Europe who would never have been entitled to bear such arms, Virtually all of the "Family Crest" businesses are sham's promoting the…
I guess I need to chime in. I must agree that the uncontrolled / uneducated use of Coats of Arms, and particularly 'Family' Crests is a problem. Generally for the reasons discussed in the posts so far. Most Coats of Arms are registered for an individual, most Americans have no right to claim a Coat of Arms, we are generally descended from a class of individuals in Europe who would never have been entitled to bear such arms, Virtually all of the "Family Crest" businesses are sham's promoting the improper use of arms that, as has been said, are often in error, or just plain bogus. Most users displaying coats of arms have no knowledge or care about Heraldry.... But having said that, there are thousands of accurate coats of arms for individuals, that are identify in ancient rolls, displayed in church windows, and other sources that have been identified with the proper individuals, and when identified for that specific individual, have a full and proper place in genealogical research. When properly used and studied, they provide wonderful insights into the generations and links between families. Many of the ancient families were granted arms that where inherited through the male line, and sometimes although rarely through the females of the line. When a husband married such a family, the wife's families arms were often adopted by the man, or incorporated into his own, as a new line of arms quartering, and re quartering the original family arms into a graphic display of the history of his branch of the family and the families with which that line was associated. The study of Heraldry has always been a branch of the study of genealogy, and very rightly so. The problem is not the study and use of heraldry, Its the individuals who pursue the use of such symbols without the proper study, and understanding of the art.........I for one would approach these individuals with the intent to educate and foster greater understanding, not simply disavow their right to use the symbols. After all, it is the pride of their ancestry they are attempting to display, which is a wonderful thing. I don't have too much of a problem with individuals displaying an ancient coat of arms or crest that was rightfully associated with an ancestor of the line, most are only using the graphic to illustrate that ancestral connection, I would agree that those individuals who take it a step beyond and claim the right to use it as their own should be properly thrashed. Yes, you are one of the very…tag:www.genealogywise.com,2009-07-16:3463583:Comment:613532009-07-16T19:17:53.022ZUnknown Ancestorhttp://www.genealogywise.com/profile/UnknownAncestor
Yes, you are one of the very lucky few in an exclusive band of brothers.<br />
Most Americans cannot trace lines to an authentic Crest, and when they try it is usually inaccurate. Most, when they 'jump the pond' in colonial research, have no valid documentation of their pedigree.
Yes, you are one of the very lucky few in an exclusive band of brothers.<br />
Most Americans cannot trace lines to an authentic Crest, and when they try it is usually inaccurate. Most, when they 'jump the pond' in colonial research, have no valid documentation of their pedigree.